Darshan on Champions Queue

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>Hey men,

>I’ve been seeing a ton of discussion about Champions Queue these days, and I desired to get the time to write out a put up pertaining to a couple of precise factors. Apply and advancement is a incredibly deep, nuanced conversation so bear with me as this will be a Extended put up.

>#1. Champions Queue and its successes and failures, and how it can be enhanced, the two logistically and from a cultural standpoint.
#2 Attempting to outline practice and enhancement.
#3 My personal standpoint from a decade of participating in, dwelling, and respiratory league of legends on optimum education techniques and how to boost.

>I want to preface this with the fact that I hear the neighborhood and their problems. I believe that that we can do much better as gamers and as a location in lots of ways, but I assume that there is a whole lot of depth and nuance to this conversation and the respond to to advancement isn’t as easy as just participate in a lot more video games. I wrote this piece to hopefully include some context and my very own point of view on the predicament.

>To get started out with Champions Queue, I believe staying capable to put into action this with Riot was a large accomplishment. For a lengthy time, gamers would inform me that this was the #1 thing they preferred, and to ultimately be able to have it for gamers this year was wonderful. Reduced ping, easy way to queue, and a scaled-down, more aggressive pool of gamers was each individual NA player’s aspiration. Now that we have had it for a few months, I imagine we can mirror a lot more on the reality of its implementation. I consider the local community has had a Good deal of valid criticism, but I feel that there is also a good deal of context that will give better viewpoint. First off, I consider that there are particular changes that we required to put into practice to CQ additional rapidly mainly because they considerably strengthen the high-quality of the game titles, specifically MMR and moderation of users in CQ.
#1: MMR – The present rating program for champions queue is +10, -5. This brings up a whole lot of concerns. Essentially, with a 34% win charge, you can climb, so this can skew to participating in more as opposed to taking part in greater. Another concern is that the game titles can be incredibly unbalanced without having an mmr procedure. I believe that that top quality of game titles is paramount and this was a constant grievance I acquired from gamers. A lot of incentive is shed if you are more so rewarded on quantity More than good quality. Amount is essential, but top quality should really be at the centerpiece of successful apply. I imagine, for illustration, that a player with 50 game titles and 60% winrate ought to be ranked higher than a player with 100 online games and 50% winrate,

>#2: Moderation: I think another essential facet is moderating the gamers in champions queue and removing those who are severely underperforming. Of system, every person has poor online games, but when it receives to the position that sure gamers are consistently lowering the excellent of the games and also being introduced up to the council, I feel they ought to be removed to have a increased high-quality setting. If my title was introduced up and I was lowering the high-quality of online games for a constant time period, I would also want to be removed. I want NA to have the optimum high quality schooling experience possible.

>This is a personalized take note, but I actually do not imagine the the vast majority of NA gamers are lazy. Some may well be, but I think that if anything is plainly introducing benefit to your vocation, you would do your very best to continue to keep that a continual in your life.

>I would like to change the conversation over to defining follow and advancement, but in advance of I do that I would like to converse a little bit on my individual standpoint.

>I have been actively playing qualified league for just about a 10 years now. I have had numerous ups and downs in my occupation, and have discovered a good deal by means of the procedure. For all of my profession, I have experienced a burning drive to strengthen and find out as considerably as I can so that I can be the best and acquire a planet championship. For 99% of my profession, I was the type of individual who only concentrated on league. I was normally watching vods, reflecting on my enjoy, carrying out 1v1s, playing in inhouses anytime I could, looking into my opponents, performing what ever I could to be the greatest. There was a restless need to often be successful and generally be relocating to this perfect of what it indicates to improve and realize success. I would even implement out of recreation factors these kinds of as excercise to really feel like I would undertaking Anything I could. Family members, buddies, a social lifetime, all the things was thrown to the wayside for the length of my career up to this issue. Having said that, in retrospect I realized that a ton of my efforts were incredibly ineffective and in a lot of circumstances even detrimental.

>Esports is a quite new field. In other capabilities, these as basketball or playing the piano, there have been many many years of practical experience and study to develop off on and imitate to get the very best benefits. In our circumstance, there is a whole lot of trial and mistake. Bluntly speaking, lots of coaches are similar in age and working experience and are just commencing to figure items out as nicely. Of class there are competent coaches, but this is a extremely new matter. For this reason, I imagine it is incredibly crucial for to outline advancement and apply and be intentional about how we are approaching it, and proceed to reflect on this approach.

>As an aside, I individually also imagine that if NA is going to be superior than the other locations, it simply will not be through enjoying much more. Not only is there a bigger participant foundation in other locations with superior ping, they are by now better than us as very well. So to be equipped to exceed them, our rate of advancement have to be Much better. And in my impression, the ideal way to do that is to be Pretty intentional with the way we tactic our observe and our life-style so we can follow in smarter means. I consider there are so lots of factors that can be completed to improve follow strategies, and so small of it is carried out. But right before I get to that, I would like to endeavor to outline follow and advancement.

>The very first matter I will say is that advancement is not linear. We are not just working with the recreation league of legends. We are working with human beings. There are ebbs and flows, ups and downs, stagnation, all sorts of matters. We want to do our ideal to set things into a process and way that we can outline things and then have clear aims and accountability for improvement. That factor is vital. But at the exact time,it is incredibly significant to just take a holistic method to our improvement. Each aspect of our lives issues in the direction of our enhancement. The basics of eating plan, snooze, and physical exercise are so plainly crucial but also so frequently underappreciated by players. Currently being equipped to arrive with 100% every single working day is a prerequisite that many gamers, myself bundled, have failed. Of system, you can not be at your best just about every working day but there are lots of techniques we can set ourselves up for accomplishment to be the most effective we can be that day.
Pretty just, improvement is getting greater. On the other hand, I assume that to be able to diagnose and iterate on advancement is a complete various tale. To truly be in a position to improve as an athlete, you have to have the viewpoint

>Practice is the vehicle by way of which we strengthen. In the guide, Peak: Tricks From The New Science Of Expertise, Anders Ericcson and Robert Poole determine unique sorts of exercise. There are periods exactly where you can just be executing points without intention. We can have that as a baseline. As outlined in the ebook, purposeful follow has specific, effectively defined aims. You split issues down into smaller sized parts, you have total attention on the endeavor at hand, and thoughout the system there is reflection and iteration to maintain bettering. Deliberate observe takes it a phase farther mainly because it is purposeful apply that understands the place it is heading and how to get there. This is usually in hugely created fields where techniques are refined and anything can be set into context.

>Unfortunately, we really don’t have that luxury. But I would like to get started the discussion on how we can isolate the variables in LoL and educate much more properly. The existing technique of follow for numerous gamers (myself involved for a lengthy time) is to engage in whole video games of league.

>Imagine if Kobe wanted to operate on his no cost throw so he kept playing total basketball game titles. How numerous cost-free throws do you assume he would get? Almost certainly not quite a few. On the other hand, Kobe is aware that he can just stroll up to the absolutely free throw line and maintain working on the similar issue. AKA, a drill.

>I assume league lacks a whole lot of drills. This has now been a prolonged publish, but I’ll quickly isolate two factors of league: winner mastery and mouse precision.

>In every single second of league, we are utilizing our mouse to pick a focus on. So mouse accuracy and handle is a very critical element of being a league participant. We can prepare this additional directly by applying a little something like aimbooster that specially targets this aspect of the match.

>Champion Mastery is a different extremely vital part to the video game. If you want to get better at Fiora, as a substitute of taking part in a whole match of Fiora, you can go into the observe device and get more specific on just about every factor of Fiora. The automobile attack animation, the combos, and so forth. etc. Then when you go into a entire match immediately after warming up in follow software on the champion, you can mirror on the system and see what is increasing and what personal facets nevertheless work.

>Of system, there is a Ton far more to this discussion and as this was by now a prolonged article, I failed to want to include even much more in this solitary publish. I hope you gained some viewpoint from this, and many thanks for looking through if you created it all the way to the bottom :D.

1.The neighborhood has valid problems and criticisms, even so the discussion of advancement and exercise can be substantially more nuanced and deep than just observe more.
2. There had been specified advancements to CQ we desired to be a lot quicker on that would have significantly increase the top quality of the game titles and observe, and thus, strengthen participant participation.
3. NA will not likely beat other regions by just actively playing much more, we should be incredibly deliberate with our solution to apply and the game (i.e. build new exercise procedures) since other regions are previously greater than us and have better follow environments. We need to improve at a a lot bigger amount than them by practising far more intentionally.
4. Esports, in comparison to basketball or taking part in piano, is a new discipline, and there is a good deal we are nevertheless finding out as we you should not have many years of expertise behind us. Acknowledging this fact is important so that we can go about the total course of action in a smarter way.
5. Defining practice and improvement. Improvement is not linear. A holistic method for athletes , and human beings, in any wander of existence, is tantamount.
6. Volume of apply for athletes is some thing that should be dynamic, not static. There could be days where someone can apply 12 hrs proficiently, but there are also times where by only 5 several hours of powerful practice is achievable.
7. Believed experiment: How can we isolate the variables of league and practice them independently?

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47 replies on “Darshan on Champions Queue”

This is the best post and discussion starter for champions queue on top of overall comparision to real sports/competition.

Players like Danny and Fudge use the 1v1 environment as more of a drill style practice to great success. Quality over quantity is a major issue I feel people dont quite understand.

He makes valid points, but the issue is, of the pro players not playing CQ, how many of them are actually trying these alternative practice methods as opposed to just chilling?

LCS and Academy players should be playing 2-3 CQ a day so the system flourishes. Nobody is asking them to play 18 hours a day.

> 1.The community has valid complaints and criticisms, however the discussion of improvement and practice can be much more nuanced and deep than just practice more.

when the major difference between our practice compared to LCK/LPL is the time they put into practice ima just say shut the fuck up and queue the fuck up or get fired.

Well I definitely disagree with this part

“This is a personal note, but I truly don’t believe the majority of NA players are lazy. Some may be, but I believe that if something is clearly adding value to your career, you would do your best to keep that a constant in your life.”

The majority of the pro players come across as very lazy. There are some like Darshan and bjerg that are hard working, but a lot just seem to be coasting or at least satisfied with where they are and what they’ve achieved.

Also the part where he says the only way NA will be better is through better practice, well yeah isn’t that what CQ is? No other region has that right now, I guess sorta China? With their super server? But yeah CQ is better practice environment yet all we hear are excuses and how is not being used.

Kinda feels like if other training tools were introduced, we would get similar results/excuses from the pros.

Point number 1 is entirely fluff… how can we begin to discuss quality when games don’t even exist?

The discussion on smarter methods of practice is interesting but that is something that should be looked at by analysts/coaches. While we wait for them to cook up a hyperbolic time chamber of sorts, what option is there but to increase time spent with whatever tools are currently available?

>The current ranking system for champions queue is +10, -5. This brings up a lot of issues. Basically, with a 34% win rate, you can climb, so this can skew towards playing more as opposed to playing better.

I thought data was released pointing out the top of the champions queue ranking was not indeed populated by low win-rate grinders? So, clearly, there is no opposition here. You need to play a lot and you need to play better.

>Another issue is that the games can be very unbalanced without an mmr system. I believe that quality of games is paramount and this was a consistent complaint I received from players. A lot of incentive is lost if you are more so rewarded on quantity OVER quality. Quantity is important, but quality should be at the centerpiece of effective practice. I believe, for example, that a player with 50 games and 60% winrate should be ranked higher than a player with 100 games and 50% winrate

Okay? So if players don’t play CQ, how are you supposed to establish an initial MMR / ELO system? You need games played in order to formulate a ranking system. I thought that MMR would be implemented later so why is this a complaint at all?

>Esports is a very new field.

Are we ignoring that competitive gaming has been around just as long as most traditional sports leagues? When you compare chess or go to an e-sport, is it really that different?

Even if you limit this to just contemporary e-sports, it has still been around for 2+ decades now. We know what works. We know what doesn’t. Why are we acting like it’s still some big mystery.

Shit is not that complicated. When you put a lot of driven, motivated, near obsessive players in the same “room” and give them the methods to compete, iron sharpens iron and monsters are born. We saw it 2+ decades ago when PC Bangs started to rise in popularity in Korea and birthed a generation of the world’s best RTS players. We saw it 2+ decades ago when arcades the world over like Korea’s Green arcade, New York’s Chinatown arcades, or newer arcades like the arcades in Lahore, Pakistan birthed FGC world champions. We see it today in the Korean league scene with Korean solo queue. We even see it in other industries with companies like Blizzard North, Pixar, Apple, and more.

The difference with CQ? It’s not a system of competition that has been proven to work time and time again. It’s the players in it. Concentrated competition works in EU. It works in KR. It works in China. It even works in NA when you look at other games or industries. When it doesn’t work in league, it’s not the system. It’s the PLAYERS.

>Practice is the vehicle through which we improve. In the book, Peak: Secrets From The New Science Of Expertise, Anders Ericcson and Robert Poole define different types of practice. There are times where you can just be doing things without intention. We can have that as a baseline.

The issue right now is that NA players are not even reaching a baseline. They are not driven, motivated, hungry competitors at a fundamental level. That’s your real baseline. It doesn’t matter how you practice if your players are like a bunch of spoiled kids who are only reluctantly doing their homework and studying for school out of obligation.

The MMR is probably the biggest deterrent to champion’s queue. Believe it or not, not every game was high quality pros vs pros. There would be games of all LCS vs all amateur, and that was just an even worse waste of time than solo queue. I heard this as one of the main complaints whenever people stated what they didn’t like about champion’s queue. When only the most hard core were left it makes sense that the games are more evenly skilled. But there has to be a real MMR system in place to make the games worthwhile.

Also I hope they take the time off to figure out a real ladder solution. Split 1 RJS was the biggest offender of how abusable the current lp system is, winning more games than you lose should be the most important factor in climbing, not the sheer number of games.

> we must be very deliberate with our approach to practice and the game (i.e. develop new practice methods)

Last time someone tried that, they got fired for clashing with the org’s systems xD

wow so much mystery on how to get better

this would be understandable if NA is playing PEAK league of legends and dominating the world but it isn’t, they are shitters of lolesports, you literally have other regions doing better

> Of course, everyone has bad games, but when it gets to the point that certain players are consistently lowering the quality of the games and also being brought up to the council, I believe they should be removed to have a higher quality environment.


Personally I feel this post is just redirecting the conversation and not truly talking about Champions Queue beyond the first points. I don’t see why talking about using an aim tool or practice tool are important for the discussion. Champions Queue doesn’t replace those. It augments them. Do all of the above! I am certain other regions use those tools as well. The single area other regions have an advantage over NA for practice is solo queue, and we have a way to improve it significantly! It just requires buy in from all of the players.

The discussion about MMR and quantity vs quality are good points, which is why I wish the discussion stayed on how we can improve CQ to be actually useful for the league.

Garbage. NA players don’t even do the basics of training with ‘intention’ AKA expanding their champ pool with a vision for what will persist in the future. Coaches should be deciding what champs a player will play in solo q/cq and if we’re not even already at that level don’t hit me with some bullshit around players themselves to define their own intentional practice. You can load into practice tool between games with the cq setup, so just a weird thing to segway into.

Normalizing CQ practice gives players from bottom ranked teams to consistently cross train against players from top ranked which ultimately would raise the level of competition in NA in a low ping environment.

I can’t wait for worlds to come around and all the best teams from around the world praise champions queue and shit on NA pros for crying about it.

Results speak more then ranting on how practice is not develop in esport when we can just look across the league whether it be lpl, lck, lec we see players in that league that had started as one of the worst player in the league to being one of the best. Players like rich, morgan, smeb, doinb we literally get to watch them grow to become world class talent. When has the last time this happens in NA now its just imports player diffing in NA to win. Whens the last time NA had a great zero to hero story that shows proof of improvement the last time was probably c9 goldenglue lol.

this post would be valid if the alternative forms of practice pros were using were proven to work. there is quite literally no reason anyone should believe that pros are working super hard behind the scenes and using more efficient practice methods than champs queue and that’s just the honest truth. it’s genuinely so sad to hear that NA pros just don’t have it in them to ever try as hard as eastern teams. can you imagine this shit in KR or CN, lol? if you weren’t playing 13 hours a day and weren’t on voice comms because “too much pressure to win”, you’d be eaten alive. there are CN super server one tricks that put in more work and are legitimately better than NA pros. i whole heartedly believe someone like Beifeng could shit on a middle of the pack LCS player. that’s it. doomed region. i just hope riot relegates LCS to a minor region

This post is such garbage lmao. And people are eating it up just because its long and nicely worded.

Literally the same complaints just packaged in a nicer way and you all just eat it up like cake.

If you want to be the absolute best at literally anything you need to devote damn near entire life to it. Practicing less than the people who are already significantly better than you will get you nowhere.

You want to be the best at something? It’s not going to be fun and you’re going to have to sacrifice your mental health and social life.
It’s not for everyone and that’s why the people who truly reach the pinnacle of anything deserve massive credit.(and the salaries that often accompany it)

This doesn’t really address most people’s arguments for why pros should play CQ. Yeah, isolated practice is better, but is slightly harder to achieve in league. However, effective practice will still involve some level of scrimmaging/full games and in that regard, CQ is so much better than soloq for that purpose.
And there’s also an aspect of selflessness needed here. Players are thinking of only short term benefits rather than long term benefits. Yeah, there need to be improvements made to CQ with regards to LP and matchmaking. This was even acknowledged in the original CQ announcement post and Riot said they would eventually address them. However, even with those issues, players should still be playing and queuing up. Olleh queues up for CQ even when no one else is playing, even when he will have 2 hour queue times, just so that it is slightly more enticing for other people to play. He knows about and is fighting the negative feedback loop of having longer queue times leading to less players leading to longer queue times. He is sacrificing short term practice quality because he knows keeping CQ alive and encouraging more people to play will give him the best long term practice. Unfortunately other NA pros don’t have this mentality or aren’t willing to face any slight inconveniences.

The tl;dr was long enough to warrant its own tl;dr (forget the fact I read the entire post above it lol)

NA players just need to get off social media and prove to everyone why they are right and we are wrong by producing results. They can type and say all they want about practice and the training regime it just doesn’t matter when there’s nothing to show for internationally. Is Darshan still theorizing his practice method/experiment or is he in the middle of implementing it right now will we get to see super saying darshan next year? Or 2 years from now when his practice pays off?

Well imo this is a good post and provides different angles on practicing and improvement, but it’s leaving some of the major concerns of CQ out of discussion.

Many players like Olleh, Zven and Lourlo noted that CQ games is dropping quality cuz many players are leaving causing the amount of games dropping and queuing times rising, just like normal servers when the number of players are decling. So what’s Riot’s response to this? They shut down the whole server, Especially during off-season when players have most of the time.

IT’S LIKE SHUTTING DOWN THE GYM ON WEEKENDS DUE TO LACK OF CUSTOMERS ON WEEKDAYS. It’s just just absurd. CQ’s game quality will be harshly effected if the game quantities drops, and the solution should be trying to add more players, while retaining the quality of games,but not just shut the whole platform down and expect players to return at a specific time.

At the start of the server Riot had mentioned that non-pro players can join the server through submitting applications but now where are they? It just seems the somewhat council is not doing any of the work and these non-pro players could fill the amount of the server if pros can’t play that much due to scrims or other practices.

To me shutting down the server temporarily is just nothing else but SURRENDER. Why is CQ suddenly falling between Split 1&2 ? Is it that the players have suddenly ALL chose to have some other methods of training? No of course. If a server starts losing players it won’t stop, and the process just accelerates. What if only half of the pros are returning at the start of summer? CQ is bleeding and it needs blood, not shock therapy. Overall Riot’s being too idealistic on this issue.

Only NA would write up an essay of mental gymnastics to explain why they cannot muster the effort to play the game at the intensity the top regions do. There’s a reason Broken Blade said he would *never* return to this region.

It is a very good post when it come to the topic of practice but in my case, and I think many others, the issue isn’t about champion queu being the only tool who should be used to improve.

It is because pro players in NA gave excuses after excuses on their practice environment, often mentionning as the main reason they were having difficulty to perform internationaly is the issue with soloQ being a bad practice environment.

I mean MarkZ summarised everything with his last video (and he isn’t one to blindly jump on a subreddit narrative), pros used that as an excuse and gave excuses for why they couldn’t bother use in-house, why it was a pain, etc.

So Riot themselves created a better pratice environment with a reward if you did well in a subpar region who drain money every split and apply salary competition very few can compete on for no real reward or quality.

And what happened afterward?
More excuses to not do it, more excuses about how it wasn’t the best method anyway.

So why was it ask to be made for?
Why was it the fucking excuses for years?
Why is the level in NA not incredibly better with the practice drills and vod reviews and 1 vs 1 they are doing?

I am not even from NA but it make me sick for NA fans that they get shat on that badly when it come to just showing some good faith.

You see your scene with tons of moneys being blow out for no good reason (Overwatch league come into mind) sacking others regions to try to be competitive only to never ever perform very well for the past few years.

The NA scene is having a lot of issues, from streamers/old pros shitting on the product which made all the hard work by the broadcast team become useless to their smaller playerbase & ping making their soloQ practice not ideal (daily reminder that some pro players in adjacent countries to korea or china were challenger with a high ping on their server..) and the insane inflation in salaries which make the economic bubbles threaten to burst hard at one point if it wasn’t for Riot having enough money to sustain it in some ways.

Pro players gave the audience this moby dick to chase when it came to what was needed for them to see their pros finally do better/the region they like finally being able to close the gap.
And what happened when moby dick was finally catch?
They say it wasn’t the real moby dick and gave another one.

Of course people are pissed off and tired. Of course they are tired of being nice and talk about it with a grey mindset where they take pros or cons. Thankfully they don’t let themselves be fuck over again with no repercusion or fight back.

Like I wasn’t mad at Danny for not playing champions queu, I was mad at danny because his reasons were utter bullshit and dumb and sounded like poor excuses.
And guess what? Danny decided to work on CQ despite having issues with it and thanks to that he tried to be constructive and show me good faith.

I won’t talk about Fudge because while I absolutely 100% agree there is tons of methods to improve and Champion Queu is not an incredible miracle solution for everything, this guy “sucess” is the most overblow on the scene and you can’t really fight narratives on this subreddit.
I don’t think he is that good or impressive, I don’t think him explaining his training regiment justify not supporting a bit champions queu for the first year of its existence to give the fans good faith and pretending that its benefits are void/useless on him.

Valid points, but at the end of the day, what Darshan is saying is literally what is expected out of every single pro esports athlete. To become the best of the best you need to be a little bit insane as you seek to be the best amongst your peers you need to put 150% or even 200%. Otherwise these players should just get a career, and find their boring 9~5 that’ll pay em 6 figures (hopefully).

League is different from traditional sports as Darshan wrote, although we can’t do “specific” drills for champions only know the ins and outs of their kits in practice tool. It’s up to them to grind up on CQ to live and breathe these scenarios. The big advantage of esports vs regular sports is the required stamina needed as it’s more mental than physical. Their job is to be the best of the best so they better for the sake of themselves go out there and compete against their peers in the highest level every time, that’s what it means to be a pro.

While Darshan brings up some good points, I fundamentally disagree with his “we won’t just get better by playing more.” This is LITERALLY how the other regions he mentions are already better got to where they are. They had the environment for longer, obviously, but how do you think Faker got to be Faker? He may not grind as heavily now that he has a lot of the basic skills down and a massive champ pool from having played for as long as he has, but he didn’t start out that way. While I don’t know his schedule, I can almost guarantee you he still plays soloqueue almost every day.


Champ Queue has the potential to be NA’s “super server,” pooling the best of the best from all around for high quality matches, but in order to get there pros and everyone in it have to give it a shot and play it constantly. A lot of pros stopped playing consistently once the novelty of the thing wore off, some even dropping it altogether. What was the point of begging Riot for champs queue then? All other players not on a pro or amateur team could quit and there should still be enough players to get decent queues and decent games for better practice compared to soloqueue. In my opinion this is the root of the complaints related to pros dropping Champ Queue

Okay, but LCK/LPL are better than us. They practice more than us. Can we maybe just try to match that?

No? Okay nvm.

People gotta stop using sports analogies when talking about esports. They’re almost always not in tune with each other.

>Imagine if Kobe wanted to work on his free throw so he kept playing full basketball games. How many free throws do you think he would get? Probably not many. However, Kobe knows that he can just walk up to the free throw line and keep working on the same thing. AKA, a drill.

First off, He shouldn’t really be using Kobe as an example for his perspective for “healthier” practice methods because he was a practice nut. There are many stories where he would be waking up at 4am to start working out and would always be the last one to leave the gym.

I get his point that there are certain techniques a player can practice but sometimes drills don’t correlate with in game success. There are numerous stories of Shaq and Dwight Howard making 80%+ of their free throws in practice, but come game time, they shoot around 50%. If you ever played in a rec basketball league, coaches would always make you practice free throws when you’re tired because during the game, you’re going to be exhausted while shooting free throws. Also, Kobe always practiced drills at in game speed. Yes, a league player can practice all these small nuances, but the best practice is still applying them into actual league games.

Darshan is both right and wrong here.

Playing more leads to success, we see that not just in league, but literally every sport.

Pro players of sports play drill because of the physical demands of the sport, the time games take, and how little agency they have over the course of a game (steph curry might attempt 12 3s a game that takes 2-3 hours where he can shoot 100 3s in an hour of practice). LoL in esports has non of these issue, or relatively few. Games are fast under 30 min on average at top level, you always have a level of agency unless a game has spiraled, and the physical impact is low.

There is also the fact that LoL is a game where you arent playing the same character at lvl 1 and lvl 16, or in the first 5 min and 30 min into the game. There are very many “skills” that can be practiced or turned into a drill due to that.

Like a pro can try to efficiently learn a champ by doing 1v1s and practicing certain matchups in private games and try to create the most optimal way to practice, or you can spam that champ in solo q like faker does with the same results. You literally get an entire crash course without all the down time of setting up a drill, are in a real game environment, and play against more variety and wacky situations that should give a greater understanding of the champion.

Like Literally EVERYOTHER major regions pros play more soloq and are better and the best players play the most soloq. The key is they are actively engaged and learning during solo q and their goal isnt necessarily to WIN its to learn.

I want to agree with darshan about this but LoL doesnt have great universal skills to practice and drill compared to other esports or sports. Its probably something that makes it as dynamic as it is. In regular sports you can practice passing, defence, shooting, blocking, plays, ect. Shooters you can practice lineups, crosshair placement, flicks, and mouse control.

In league you are constantly clicking, so you will have plenty of opportunity for emphasizing mouse control while CSing or fighting later (basically the entire game). Thats about a you can practice in a drill if you can simulate it. Almost everything else is knowledge based that is gained through just playing. Skill shots are unique to each champ, if you want to get better at landing it, playing a game is probably better that any drill. If you want to learn a matchup you could enter a 1v1, but your practice is as good as your partner. It will also take the same time to practice lvls 1-6 in practice as it would ing a real game, but in a real game you will just naturally learn more due to different people. How can you drill teamfight? Isnt that just playing the game? You cant learn how to play camille in a team fight in a drill, playing her 1v1 is very different and every team fight is different.

Honesty i just cant see drilling actually being able to replace hours of in game playtime on a champ. League doesnt have easily practiced skills, practicing 1v1s and matchups is undoubtably usefull, but not a replacement for actually playing that champ in games.

Play solo q with the same intent you would practice a drill with, use it as a learning experience and do it as much as other regions do and NA will improve.

Hard to believe he knows the secret to practice when he’s never been able to stand at the top for any time. There’s a reason the best teams in the world also grind alot.

This whole post just sounds like him trying to spin up the old excuses NA has used year over year.

It makes no sense from a competitive perspective where “CN and KR are so far ahead that we need to practice smarter and not harder so we shouldn’t be playing soloqueue like they do”.

Like no, what makes you think you will be the region that discover the secret sauce in the first place, and why wouldn’t the better regions implement those training strategies if they see it working when you do find it?

End of the day this still boils down to drive and work ethic. Smarter, not harder only applies to mundane tasks, in competitions it should be smarter AND harder. If what Darshan says is correct, and we don’t know what is the best form of practice, then you COPY what has been winning world’s because it is clearly working for them. If you want to find excuses, then just admit you don’t want to do that because it is difficult.

I mean how can he said NA has to try harder to surpass LCK and LPL if they want to succeed yet saying playing more is not the only way to improve. It’s not like genetically lck/lpl is better at league than NA players anyway. The only reason is that they grind hard af.

Man, this sounds like a bunch of excuses from a bunch of spoiled, lazy players.
The solution is not playing more? But the solution is also not CQ because its not 100% perfect?
‘E-Sports is very new’ asia figured it out it seems?

Did they even give CQ an entire season before abandoning it? Can’t really analyze results if you stop before there can be any

I think the big point everyone misses is, it took abrely a split for people to not really care anymore.

The point is that pros spend more time to ratify why they aren’t playing CQ instead of putting the effort in to making the system better and learning about their own practice.

Ofc CQ is not the absolute promised land from day 1. There will be some issues, there always are. But it feels like pros are at the point were they say “Well it’s becoming a bit difficult, so better not care anymore.”

Riot literally gave CQ a massive price pool, you really think the matchmaking will stay shit for the entire time, if the pros say “Look this needs to improve.” But instead they just give up and don’t use it at all. And the few that want to use CQ are left to fight for them, so they can then get the perfect practice envoirement after they ironed out the kinks. And if it dies, who cares, they earn 500k+ a year for apparently not giving a fuck anyways.

>I believe, for example, that a player with 50 games and 60% winrate should be ranked higher than a player with 100 games and 50% winrate

OK, why does it matter tho? It’s a practice tool first, why do you care about the ladder? The only thing it impacts is rewards and money, so you’re trying to tell me pro players won’t practice because they won’t get paid extra?

>Another issue is that the games can be very unbalanced without an mmr system. I believe that quality of games is paramount and this was a consistent complaint I received from players.

Are CQ games lower quality than solo queue? Obviously not, so fuckin play CQ instead. Watch as they introduce MMR system and then “queue times are too long” will be the excuses.

“We’d play more if the environment was perfect”. Unreal.

NA pros doing mental gymnastics. On one hand you say CQ needs to be fixed it order for pros to play it and on the other playing CQ will not be very effective because NA pros need to practice “different” than playing actual full games to improve. There’s no way majority of NA pros put in insane hours that you claimed you did in the past. Nobody is buying that.

At this point it’s just comedy, I can’t wait to hear the reasons why CQ is dead when it’s re-implemented with the changes. I guess pros will just say they prefer their “personal” practice methods now.

Maybe it’s best Riot gives EU champions queue since NA pros want to do less successful practice methods to figure out this new thing called Esports.

In EU, EUM teams scrim LEC teams and academy teams; in LCK and LPL, teams scrim academy teams. In LCS no team scrims their academy team because they’re scared to lose their jobs, and soloQ sucks due to content creators, so the young promising players have no way to develop. And now they want to kick some pros lol. Challengers Queue would give them the practice they need but nah let’s create an even bigger wall between LCS and academy.

Young players will improve and learn after being battered a couple times by pros. That’s how it works in every single sport. Having the academy teams play each other stagnates their level.

Oh boy is a lot of this just well written horseshit.

>NA won’t beat other regions by just playing more, we must be very deliberate with our approach to practice and the game (i.e. develop new practice methods) because other regions are already better than us and have better practice environments. We must improve at a much higher rate than them by practicing more intentionally.

That is quite literally CQ. A better quality option over Soloq that sacrifices quantity for quality. A tool that no other region has access to. Work smarter not harder should not be a defence for players not playing CQ, it’d be an argument for why they should use it over Soloq if anything.

>Esports, compared to basketball or playing piano, is a new field, and there is a lot we are still learning as we don’t have decades of experience behind us. Acknowledging this fact is important so that we can go about the whole process in a smarter way.

Yeah and CQ is a step of this process that literally was designed to address the differences in practice between regions as pointed out by the pros themselves. We may not know what’s the best practice but we do know Korean Soloq practice is better than Na Soloq practice, and CQ addresses that. Even if you don’t play matches, access to CQ would still be more valuable than practicing on live due to the low ping environment for 1v1s and so on. That is not up for debate, you can’t really spin this as ‘we don’t know enough about practice to judge if it’s better’ literally everyone will agree lower ping is better.

And don’t even get me started on champion mastery, ‘i can’t play new champ’ in CQ being a factor of not playing CQ when we can see none of that in Soloq either. If you can’t play it in CQ but choose not to play it in Soloq anyway then it’s a moot point.

C9’s top laner says NA needs new training methods while his org fired LS for doing exactly that

what a shit take

This means there is a lack of competition, and the NA pro scene, or lack there of, is pretty much entrenched. In other words there is not much to gain financially through participating. Also the risk of financial loss is real with CQ as the pro is preforming under a microscope.

As NA culture is more about the individual then region, CQ will only succeed here if the prospect of gain far outweighs any risk.

What incentive does a pro have to play an academy player? The pro is already pro, for the most part ascension for him is succeeding in pro play. Beating an academy player is expected. Meanwhile all the incentive is with the academy player who has a chance to beat the higher class pro, and has minimal to lose.

As we are capitalist, self preservation is our driving force. CQ being about the community and not the individual is contradictory to the wealthy’s value system. If doesn’t make dollars, it doesn’t make sense. For CQ to work, you will have to set it up so the rich are almost guaranteed to get richer. Or the have-nots are kept as have-nots, and not a threat to take one of the finite positions of wealth.

This is how the west works. It is about money over everything.

Ah yes we found the first guy who doesn’t play CQ.
TLDR of this whole post: sometimes we need to do drills and we cannot be bothered to play CQ. Bla bla some blame on mmr.

This is a pathetic post. If you wanna do your drills Darshan go ask for a tournament code and 1v1 in custom games. There is no need for a whole company to break their ass making a fresh server for the worst international players just so they can complain they don’t really want to play.

All of us here know the elephant in the room as to why lcs people don’t abuse this server. It is because you are scared shitless to get replaced by sb better than you. And you won’t be able to steal paychecks anymore.
Btw that Fudge doing drills and 1v1’s just affirms this. Since Fudge is one of the worst players in that team getting carried by Blaber.

Enjoy your Copium Darshan. We will see u at MSI ans hopefully not at worlds. Hope the lcs owners realize their players are lazy garbage and sub some of you all out for people that actually care about the game.

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